Direct Response to Re: [Rets-dev] Google Base Housing vs. RETS

[Stuart Schuessler]

>>I can use an ATM, as well as most people.  Thats the vessel for
>>communication.  I dont need to know how it communicates and-or   what
>>standard it uses.

When you use that ATM you are using a client application that speaks to a
server following a standard.  You as the end user do not know you are using
a standard.  I am sure during the development of the ATM standard someone
wanted to put it all on GoogleBase, but that would be crazy right?  I am
sure that some thought the standard was too complicated.

So now you are saying you do not want it on Googlebase.  Ok.  You want the
Googlebase metadata- right?  NP:  RETS2 supports different payloads.
Propose a payload to the group that follows the Googlebase layout.  Did you
want someone else to propose it?

>>you completely missed the point of every email thus far from me.  I

>>dont want to use googlebase.  I was merely comparing that two things,

>>same end result - one easy and one not

There is nothing in RETS that would prevent a simpler data feed.  You are
not even required to have a login.  You could just have a search.  It is the
implementation of RETS to serve different business needs that complicates
it.

>>you completely missed the point of every email thus far from me.  

No, I think I completely understand your point.  Yes I do think that if you
had your choice all real estate data would be in GoogleBase.  I think that
there is a lack of understanding about what happens in real estate and you
are frustrated because you cannot get access to data so you are blaming RETS
without reading the RETS specification.

>>the client and the standard SHOULD NOT define business rules.  What
>>open industry standard defines business rules?

I agree and RETS does not.  It provides a way to support the business rules
that are defined.  It even provides a way to publish some of those rules
back to the client.

>> What is this Mismo

You are actually working in Real Estate - right?  MISMO is the mortgage
industry standard.  Paul had an earlier email about that.

>>my friend, you have just defined everything you do AFTER THE FACT of

>>RETS when the data has been repurposed onto a different system.  Is

>>RETS now supposed to be a complete tool to provide every view of the

>>data sliced and diced that you want?  Or is it supposed to communicate

>>with an abstracted SERVER to get the data.  Oh and we are still only

>>talking about listing data!  

Uh - wrong.  I am defining concerns that a server provider has before the
data is even obtained.  The business rules and fields need to be in place to
support various "repuposing".  Yes RETS can provide different views of data.
A client is suppose to communicate with a server to get the data and based
on a number of factors that are defined by the MLS the view of data the
client gets may be different and support the use of the data that follows
the client's purpose for existing.  There is really nothing abstract about
it.

>> with RETS2 ?

I have not used wget on RETS2.  RETS2 does follow the HTTP protocol so there
is not reason it cannot be done.  SOAP is just a standard on HTTP (probably
be better on Googlebase) so if you would like to got to the trouble of
making the API calls using wget then I am sure you could do that.  You do
know that the tools that generate everything for you in SOAP are just tools
right?  They make the same HTTP calls.

Stuart



-----Original Message-----
From: dsrockets at gmail.com [mailto:dsrockets at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:20 AM
To: Stuart Schuessler
Cc: Rets-dev at rets.org
Subject: Re: Direct Response to Re: [Rets-dev] Google Base Housing vs. RETS

below:

On 3/16/07, Stuart Schuessler <sschuessler at tds.net> wrote:
>
>
> >>High adoption rate?  How many times does a post come through here and
the MLS doesn't even support it?
> >>And I think I am offering ways to make it less complicated.
>
> Yes, high adoption rate.  Every major MLS vendor in the country uses RETS.
I would dare say that over half of the real estate agents in the country use
it and don't even know it.  There is a very large industry structure built
around RETS.  If an MLS is not using RETS at this point then they are
putting their members at a competitive disadvantage.
>


this supports my point.  Its a listing data transfer standard.
Where is the adoption in the appraisal industry? the mortgage industry?

> Were you realistically expecting everyone to drop the RETS standard and
start using GoogleBase? We had it simpler using FTP feeds.
>

you completely missed the point of every email thus far from me.  I
dont want to use googlebase.  I was merely comparing that two things,
same end result - one easy and one not


> This is an "I can't get the data" argument gone awry.  If you are not
technically capable or too lazy to put forth the effort to get the data that
is really not anyone's problem but your own.  As I said before ask a
question about your problem and someone will be glad to help.  Proposing
that everyone switch to your way of doing things because you do not want to
learn something new is just silly.
>


its interesting that there are so many on both sides of this argument
and the fact that this is intended for Real Estate and should be
simple for those directly in real estate and not have to employee
outsourced third parties (which I am suspecting each of you are that
have answered these emails) is just not right.  It should not be
technically restrictive to need outsourcing.

I can use an ATM, as well as most people.  Thats the vessel for
communication.  I dont need to know how it communicates and-or   what
standard it uses.


> >>Look at the dang usage, Napoleon.  It is 90%+ just pulling listing data.
>
> Yes, look at the usage.  Pulling listing data with business rules applied
to appropriate fields such as expiration dates, MLS Logging of where the
data is going, Client Vendors with agreement with MLS Vendors and MLS Boards
about access to data.
>


again, you are just supporting my stance of this is all about the
listing data.  What is this Mismo, and other support.

the client and the standard SHOULD NOT define business rules.  What
open industry standard defines business rules?

MLS logging , handled by the server not the standard
appropriate field returns, handled by the server not the standard

again, it seems like everyone is trying to cram every piece of data
management into this.  Business rules are not that transparent or over
layable.

> >>Why stray to something that does everything and a whole lot more, for
such a small usage?
>
> It does a whole lot more if you want to just give away the data.  It is
like having a retail shop and someone coming in and telling you that you
could get rid of your stuff a lot faster if you put it out on the street for
free.  It is not even a sane idea.
>


missing the point as you did with any discussion around googlebase earlier

> >>If you don't think that such a high usage is solely pulling the data for
repurposing (or how you defined it as a classified ad),
> >>then please show me some examples.
>
> Prospecting, Hot sheets, media management, statistical reports, etc.  I am
sure I could come up with more.  There are just a massive number of uses for
RETS.  Let's say you have a change you would like to make to the structure
of the GoogleBase feed.  You think Google is going to make it for you?  HA!
That's Funny!  With RETS and especially RETS 2.0 you can define your own.


my friend, you have just defined everything you do AFTER THE FACT of
RETS when the data has been repurposed onto a different system.  Is
RETS now supposed to be a complete tool to provide every view of the
data sliced and diced that you want?  Or is it supposed to communicate
with an abstracted SERVER to get the data.  Oh and we are still only
talking about listing data!  If you notice


>
>
>
>
> >>so one would be able to cURL or wget the rets data and not worry about
any other intricies with both>>rets1
>
> Yes, and I have personally used wget to get RETS data.  What is the
problem?:
>

with RETS2 ?


>
>
> >> so ssl and username/password pairs are not strict enough?  How much
more security do you need?
>
>
>
> More than Googlebase is offering.


man, your head is way too far up some other place.  You really think
this whole thread has been about storing data in Googlebase?

again.  ssl and username/password.  How much more does RETS need?


>
>
>